Features request for next firmware versions...
  • Frivolous Interface Request: if it wouldn’t be too much trouble, I think it would be nice to have some sort of indication that S1 has been held long enough to sound C4, since the note doesn’t actually sound until you release the button. Maybe a simple single LED blink or a musical note on the screen? I’ve been teaching myself the sequencer functions using this trick and have been frequently caught letting go of S1 too soon.

  • The noise thing used 144 bytes.

  • @bleo +1
    blinking led1 will be good.

  • A short note on allowing the envelopes to be triggered through the modulation matrix: To be fully useful you'd also need a way to disable the normal (key on) triggering of the envelope.
    Maybe implementing this as a Sequencer Mode would make more sense? Although that wouldn't be as versatile.
  • Here is what I have done on the “triggers” front:

    • There’s a new page in the MIDI / keyboard department where you can adjust channel and note numbers for 2 “trigger events”. The MIDI channel can be different from the standard RX channel of the synth voice. These events won’t trigger notes, they will just change the value of a new modulation source. These are saved globally (like the MIDI channel), not on a per-patch basis.
    • There’s a new source in the mod matrix for those, “trg 1” and “trg 2”.
    • There’s also a new modulation destination, “env 1” and “env 2”. Whenever the modulation source crosses a threshold (which is at about 1/3 of the max modulation value), the corresponding envelope is triggered. You need to set the amount to 63 for this to work.
    • Finally, there’s a new option in the env/lfo coupling parameter of the LFO page (envtrg), which prevents the envelope to be retriggered at new notes.

    Fun things to try:

    Preview at your own risks

  • Oh man, this is – ähm – scary….

  • finaly i found some time to test this out.

    it is possible, there is a bug in this?

    the ramdom -> env trigger is working without problem. (and is awsome.)

    but i can`t get it to trigger the envs by midi.

    when i set trigger channel to the same channel as normal midi in, it filters out the note i selected for trigger. (they are not played and don`t trigger the other envelope which is in normal mode)

    ...but it is not triggering anything. (also if different channels are selected) i also tryed using the sequencer as sound source and triggering the vca env.

    i am trying with my polivoks unit (should not make a differece anyways, but just in case it is some strange bug)

    i have the suspicion i am making some stupid mistake, but i can`t figure it out.

    in which mode are the lfos exactly, when envtrig is selected?

  • It seems to me that you are mixing up the “triggers” things and the envelope retrigger features. These are distinct features.

    “Triggers” (the notes and MIDI channels you set up in the system settings) are:

    • Disabling the selected note
    • Controlling a new pair of modulation sources listed as “trig 1” / “trig 2”

    Enevelope retriggering is a totally different business, and this is configured by the “env 1” and “env 2” destinations in the mod matrix.

    So you need to route trig 1 to env 1 to have the “trigger 1 note” to retrigger the envelope 1. This is not done systematically!

    > in which mode are the lfos exactly, when envtrig is selected?

    They are behaving like in the “free” mode. This is very confusing – I needed a place to allow env 1 and env 2 auto-triggering to be disabled ; and the only space I found for that was the LFO settings (it’s vaguely related to envelope triggering since this is where you can get a LFO to trigger the envelope).

    Now all this sounds confusing and is likely to scare newcomers, maybe I should just remove this whole set of features. The Shruthi is already complex by itself and there’s no point shoe-horning modular concepts about triggers/gates into it… What do you think?

  • got it. thanks!
    i missed the point about the trg mod source. i thought it was automatic. this is even better, because it can be used for other stuff than triggering the envs.

    this thing is off course not obvios for newcomers, but i don`t think is that complicated. if someone understands this, they also get more into a “modular way” of thinking about patches.

    i think it is a great feature and i vote for leaving it in the firmware.

    it will lead to some “why is no sound comming out” questions, but whith good explainaition in the manual, it will not be that complicated, i guess.

    ... you could even think of a sequencer mode, here the steps are advanced by the trigger. (kind of like in dsi evolver, but with midi trigger, instead of audio in triggers like in the evolver)

  • I hope you'll decide to keep it in there, but then again, it was based on my suggestion.

    My only hesitation is that the normal envelope triggering is disabled in the LFO settings. That's not exactly intuitive.
    My suggestion is to simplify things, and have the normal envelope auto-triggering automatically turn off whenever you have the env1 or env2 destinations active in the mod matrix. This is generally what you'd want anyway. And if you for some reason DO want both the normal triggering as well as the matrix triggering, you could set that up by adding "gate" as a another trigger source.
  • > My suggestion is to simplify things, and have the normal envelope auto-triggering automatically turn off whenever you have the env1 or env2 destinations active in the mod matrix

    I’ve thought about it but I can’t find a good definition of “active”:

    • Listed as a destination somewhere in the modulation matrix?
    • Listed as a destination somewhere in the modulation matrix with a non-null modulation amount?
    • Listed as a destination somewhere in the modulation matrix with a non-null modulation amount and combined with a source that actually triggers something?
  • if you do it this way, the condition should be “Listed as a destination somewhere in the modulation matrix” i think.
    this way, it would not turn the normal trigger on sometimes, when tweeking the parameters in the mod matrix.
    to have the condition as simple as possible also would help making things less confusing i think.

    good idea by the way, Mathias. This way, it will be more intuitive. Also if somebody doesn’t need or understands it, he won`t have to care about it at all (because he probably won`t select env1 or env2 as modulation destination)

  • I think that either option A or B would be good.
    I don't imagine that there would many instances where you'd have env1 or env2 listed as a destination, but have the modulation amount at zero.
  • Updated the preview files, first solution used.

  • This is so awesome. Euro is low on the dollar, time to buy more MI gear and support the coolest synth operation around!

    I did have trouble getting the firmware to compile but this is probably not the thread/category to discuss that.

  • I like that solution.
  • would you perhaps like to open a new thread about these new features,
    and what they’re for.. how to use?
    I’d appreciate a lot!

    or still too early?

  • I’ll do when I release the update.

  • I’m excited :-D

    ....as always

    but of course, take your time!
    spring is coming

    enjoy!

  • just had an idea for a new oscillator algorithm:

    how about a triangle(?) wave, which has a “wave multiplier” aka “foldback distortion” effect on the parameter.
    i imagine, this would be usefull (even though there already is the foldback mixer mode) because it would not mess up the whole signal and only one osc would be affected.

    (just an idea)

  • How do you control the rate of the lag operator? I was using some random things as the second argument that seemed to affect it but not in any predictable way.

    Expanding on loderbast’s post above, I would really like it if the mix control on the fold operator controlled fold amount rather than clean/dirty mix. Although a dedicated triangle wave with foldback would be almost as cool.

  • When you use the lag operator, op1 = input ; op2 = amount. You can use the constant mod source (= 4, = 8, ...) to get a target attenuation value.

  • Back in June, aksmaster said:
    “I understand your reluctance about changing the patch data structure, then, would it be feasible to sacrifice some sequence patch memory to save some arp setups, or save the “arp” page within the sequence patch? It is just that the simple interaction of dir/rng/pat/wrp yields some very specific musical results which, especially live, are difficult to set up with speed and precision even using handwritten notes. “

    And pichenettes replied:
    “yes, it would be feasible to sacrifice some sequencer memory space for arp presets.”

    And tonight, bleo +100000 that. And wishes he knew how to quote in textile.

  • °.- LFO with INERTIA? Usefull with random shapes.. needs adding speed/inertia amount parameter. It would make possible to do exciting “wandering” parameters with slow LFO rate values.
    °.- TB-303 Osc wave emulation?
    °.- More parameters for portamento’s? And binded to individual patches?
    °.- Polychained Shruthies patch number won’t change with patches at the moment when browsing them. Patch names are following, though. I guess numbers should too?

    • You can apply the lag processor (v0.96) to the LFO to smooth it.
    • Algorithmic emulation of TB303 is not possible given the CPU constraint. And there’s not even enough space in ROM for a TB303 band-limited wavetable. Best thing possible would be to replace the existing saw oscillator.
    • Binding portamento to patches has been discussed many times and cannot be done without breaking patch storage.
    • Will look into this.
  • TB-303 is so 1990s :) If you really want 303 then there's lots of clones.

    eg

    http://www.ladyada.net/make/x0xb0x/

    I want sounds no-one else makes. Shruthi-1 does quite a lot of those.
  • @ 6581punk:

    It’s so yesterday to say “it’s so yesterday” about things. ;)

    Besides i’m an Acid House man, meaning “its so late 80’s” -not 1990’s.
    http://soundcloud.com/savojr/

    OK. It was 1996 when rebirth came out and many of us overused that sound for a while. Including me. I had to take few years break from using TB back then. Eventually i have recovered from that. :D
    And learned to go my own path without being influenced by what others in the scene think. I’ll stay in oldschool Acid House for ever. BTW. contrary i can’t stand those most over used ways to use TB… meaning using lots of distortion with very short patterns. Include some distorted BD’s, too fast BPM and it’s pure annoyance for me.
    Totally lacks that oldschool 1987-1989 Acid House vibe, IMO.

    I know x0xb0x and surely it’s THE clone out there. I wouldn’t expect Shruthi-1 to compete with that.

    In the other hand Shruthi-1 isn’t one trick pony and having capabilities to create 303’ish acid lines wouldn’t hurt. How about having alternate firmware with more TB’ish saw and square waves? I guess that user community wouldn’t be too excited if existing presets would suddenly change after updating FW. :P

    @ pichenettes:

    Lag processor? :O Have to read this thread through and try that 0.96 fw. preview asap. =)

  • You can get kinda close to a 303 sound with a Shruthi. But you’ll never nail it. It does help to use the Roland IR3109 filter though. Even though this is not the filter used in a 303 (but you do get a nice Rolandy sound regardless! Which helps..)
    It’s not just the tone of the oscillators that will be different either. You also have to consider that a good part of the reason why a 303 sounds the way it does is because of the less traditional way of handling accents and slides. The accent behaviour you might be able to emulate some, but I don’t think you’d ever make a Shruthi slide the way a 303 (or good clone) does.
    If you want to get as close as possible to the sound (and experience) of a 303, then the x0xb0x is a great way to go.
    But im positive that a Shruthi can still be great for Acid, 303 sound or not.

    While we’re on the subject of Wavetables.. I thought the Shruthi had a feature for uploading a user wavetable, no? I confess to never having used the function yet though!

    Back to .96.. As far as the user is concerned, we should expect it to be just like .95, but now both oscillators have all the same waveform choices, right? Im gonna give it a try out this evening :)

  • I'm just a little miffed that it's 2012 and it is still 1960s synthesis that is the dominant form of synthesis. FM was too hard and having no controls other than a few switches didn't help.

    I've started a MIDIBox FM and haven't yet finished the control panel. I might try the PreenFM next.

    Physical modelling seems to have vanished, I like how this synth has some models :)
  • Piggybacking on bleo’s time-saving suggestion I would really like to be able to copy from one LFO/envelope/oscillator (especially now that they have the same waveshapes) to another. It’s not usually productive to have both set to exactly the same settings, but it is often useful to have them slightly different, and this would save a lot of time memorizing & setting parameters. It’s fun most of the time but sometimes it does feel a bit tedious, especially w/ LFOs and envelopes since you have to click the button so many times to scroll between pages (and sometimes the button double-triggers).

    Also the one thing in the Shruthi I really don’t like is editing patch names. It really tries my patience. It would be great if there was a way to do it a little quicker, even if it was just jumping between upper & lowercase, numbers, symbols.

    6581: You might be able to do some physical modeling using the DSP filter board. It has comb filters so you can do Karplus-Strong synthesis. At least, I’m hoping to do some of that when I get mine running.
    Also the Shruthi-1 wavetables are pretty freaky.

  • license: Do you know that pressing S6 while turning the encoder moves values by increments of 10? So it’s quite fast to move through the charset.

  • @Luap
    I’m not trying to push Shruthi-1 sound like perfect TB-303 clone. Yeah, i am familiar about which part accent’s and slides play in TB basslines. And that there is very good clones out there, i’ve used those for years. Idea was not to be better TB clone than dedicated ones -more like taking that part into palette as well. In some degree. I like Oomeg Agressor plugin in BUZZ even if its not perfect clone. It’s decent native BUZZ plugin which does not take much CPU. Simple and effective. Not one of the best clones out there. It does not have it’s own sequencer like ABL has. ABL beats it 6-0. But i still use Oomeg from time to time. It’s just nice to have. Some similar way i wouldn’t mind if there would be TB OSC’s (or filterboard) in Shruthi-1.
    There would probably still be better clones but i’d like to use Acid basslines from Shruthi-1 too. It can do it well already but more TB’ish sounds would make that Acid burn even deeper.

    @ 6581punk

    Don’t get me wrong. I am not fully stuck in 1987-89.. that’s just one alias (and side of me). With T.V.R. i publish music without genre limitations, a bit more experimental stuff. http://soundcloud.com/tvr

    And i am HUGE fan of FM- and other additive synthesis. Who says they were too difficult to success? DX7 was most sold synth back in the 80’s i think… And that lead to many other FM-synths from Yamaha and other manufacturers. Casio kinda stealed their inventions (had legal issues with Yamaha) when they brought up their versions.
    I have used those too. PM and iPD ones. CZ1000, Hohner HS-2 which was practically Casio VZ-10 and VZ-8M. Another story was Alesis Fusion and it’s FM implementation. Very different from Yamaha’s approach, In the other hand it was better, other hand worse. Once i tried Evolution EVS-1. Didn’t like that one. Felt unfinished and it’s usability was bad. Many have praised Kawai K5000 but i didn’t like that one either (rack). UI was too slow to use. It took hours to make one sound that could be done in a minute with knob/parameter UI. It didn’t help that i got that little “programmer” with it. It had just tiny fraction of its parameters.

    I agree you on that all FM-synths really have lousy hands on control. I wonder why? How come knob / function interface would be good just for analog synths and only them? It’s not! When i got TX81Z preset in Bitstream 3X controller i found whole new life out of that machine. Editing OP frequency by quick knob turn was awesome. And turning frequencies of two OP’s at the same time was solid pleasure!
    Idea was not new, though: http://synth.me/music-gear/brian-enos-amazing-dx7-hardware-programmer
    “The auction for the Jellinghaus DX Programmer which ended in December 2005 sold for 1500 GBP”

    Main reason why there is no that kind of controllers might be manufacturing costs because there is so much parameters – and believe that ppl. wouldn’t buy those anyhow.
    But they DO! That programmer sells with impressive amounts of money. I wonder why there’s no more 3rd. party production for those.

    One of the future DIY projects i am planning to build is MIDIbox64E dedicated programmer for Yamaha TG-77. Mainly to help sound creation in it’s aFM synthesis.
    User interface matters a lot. That’s one reason why i choose programmer instead any of those small DIY FM boxes like Sammich SID etc.

    BTW. I’m surprised how much resistance my wish about implementing TB OSC waves seems to gather here. :(

    @ license

    I share your opinion about patch naming. It should be possible to do with less encoder clicks, IMHO.

    @ pichenettes

    Patch naming: Now it is needed to confirm every letter with a encoder click after moving cursor so that it can be changed.

    How about… when ‘save sound’ page is called and it is possible to move cursor, it wouldn’t need encoder push at all to select character?
    What if that character would be always activated/selected when cursor is under it?

    Like moving cursor with encoder and changing characters with (let’s say) left most pot at the same time?

    —edit—

    God dammit. It’s morning already and i have been up whole night. I guess i’m going to sleep at sunrise.. i’ve been reading / writing at forums like a robot without realizing how time passes. I hope i haven’t wrote just pure gibberish here. :P
    Zzzzz… nights. I’m out of here!

  • copy LFO or ENV settings? sounds like a nice way to have them the same so you can slightly change one, indeed. but the Shruthi uses pots, so you’d need to have the pot already in the right position to go from there in order to avoid jumps. i.e. has to be adjusted manually anyway, if you not just want them to stay the same.
    imo the programmer is the best choice for quick easy editing live. maybe not so useful for the waveforms

  • patch naming/saving: is there a way to do it without actually knowing how to? and without manual? if so i’d like to see it in the next firmware, haha

  • @pichenettes: I didn’t know that! Nice tip, thanks!

  • @rosch +1 for that!
    Actually, the whole business of patch naming/comparing/saving is something lots of synths I’ve tried fall down on. With the Microwave XT I just bought, it’s been the only thing that’s had me reaching for the manual- and it’s SUCH a basic thing.

    E-Mu had the right idea when they started including a socket for a standard PC keyboard on the back of their samplers, I think. Makes patch-naming much less painful.

    Not that I’m suggesting a similar feature should be implemented for the Shruthi-1, obviously.

    a|x

  • Patch naming is always tricky without a real keyboard. Adding USB would open up a few possibilities, but most ARM boards have ethernet and USB built in now.

    One small idea, I saw someone much much earlier mentioned easier "random" patches. My idea for that would be to have a random zone beyond the normal patches. So you could scroll to the end of the patch memory then each turn of the encoder would move to a new random patch. Can't get much simpler than that :)
  • @6581punk the Waldorf Pulse uses that concept. Patch 99 is a random patch, so every time you select it, it generates a new random patch, which you can then save to one of the other patch memories. Neatly sidesteps the whole patch-naming issue by not allowing you to name patches at all ;)

    a|x

  • About the 303 thing: It would be really cool if there was accent and slide in the sequencer! Also would be awesome if you could have patterns with more than 16 steps, or the ability to “chain” patterns.

  • You can use the legato mode in the system settings + “note change without retrigger” (the – instead of the note icon in the sequencer) to get slides.

    You can use the last column of the sequencer to program a value and route it to whatever you want (cutoff, vca, PWM, or why not noise level) to emulate accent…

  • Oh yep right, should have RTFM... Longer patterns or pattern chaining would be nice though ;)

  • I would really like it if the modulation index had a higher range, i.e. just poking into the noise domain. Although, obviously, this change would break all existing presets using FM.

    I would be more than happy to just modify my own firmware to do this. I think I tried to find this once and I didn’t understand what to modify in the source. That and I’ve yet to be able to compile the firmware on my own.

  • Supersaw! I just got myself a used JP-8080 and read up at http://www.ghostfact.com/jp-8000-supersaw/ how Roland did it. Plus I know that fcd72 doesn’t like it ;)

  • Fine Jojjelito, now evacuate the dance floor…. ;-)

    Everytime i hear “Supersaw” i think “Not clever enough to play Chords” ;-)

  • Haha, these days you don’t hear supersaw on the dancefloor. It’s all done using Massive with a touch of Virus. At least in the main room ;-)

    What if you play those pesky chords with supersaw for some saucy audio mush all over the place?

  • Then its HyperSaw™

  • The pad waveform in the present firmware is the best thing I can do to recreate a supersaw given the very limited possibilities of the MCU (budget of about 100 CPU cycles / sample). these are 4 saws, with no anti-aliasing HP applied (not enough CPU for that).

    It’s a “moderately super” saw :)

  • Ohh, didn’t realize it did some sort of super-duper-hyper-mega-giga saw. I only listened to the pad wf and I liked it. Gotta scope the Shruthi’s output I guess :)
    Then we’re done with that :p

    Next up: I need to get off my lazy ass and dump the Prophet VS waves in the Shruthi for some lulz! Or I’ll sample my VS plus add some Speak-and-spell for some interesting surprises. For those that don’t know: single-cycle speak-n-spell can sound very much like Skrillex-type of sounds as wrangled out of Massive, only thinner.

  • @Jojjelito Please post an example of what you mean with the Speak-and-Spell. I’d live to hear it!

  • @Titus Raindrops: Will do later. I’m still wrapping up my modular, then we’re good to go. It’s a bit time-consuming since all you have to start with is lots of words. Then you have to be careful to find some weird stuff that loops well using your favorite wave-editor package. But it’s oh-so nice sometimes.

    Edit: Check the AKWF for some Speak-n-Spell action. If you search this forum (I’m too lazy at the moment as I’m chewing on a Ceasar sallad as a late lunch) you’ll find that Olivier has converted it for use with the Shruthi already.

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