[Solved] Built me a programmer but it's totally not working
  • Today I built the programmer with a friend of mine. Unfortunately it doesn’t work at all, I’ll explain the details below
    We did everything according to the instructions… some things were not 100% clear but I still think I got most of it right.
    The PCB was indeed a bit tricky and at one point a solder pad went off, but it was one of the not connected legs of the IC (at least as far as I could tell).

    The rest went smooth.

    Now when I plugged it in, twisting the knobs would not change anything, only when turning OSC1 range (I think it was that one) all the 4 parameters displayed on the screen would move at the same time, this no matter which parameters are displayed… well all of the controllable, things like the matrix would stay fixed.
    Another weird behaviour is that when I booted the Shruthi it would not show the usual startscreen, but jump straight to the filter page.

    I checked all the connection, checked if the ICs and connectors had the right orientation, checked voltages among pots + and GND, checked if we had connected everything like in the pictures, and it all appears to exactly like that. So either the programmer is not working with the 4-PM or we did something wrong… but then please someone tell me what it could be.

    Just to be sure:
    I connected the output expansion section and the CV IN on the digital board with the programmer, removed the connection between that section and the filter board, connected the J6 section (the one below the output expansion, with the programmer as in the pictures. I left the other connection between the digital board and the filter as it was. Actually I even tried to remove that one, but the shruthi would not boot.

    ok… what am I missing?

  • You have selected programmer in the settings?

  • AFAIK they both use shift registers/extra experimental port, and are therefore mutually exclusive.. :/

    EDIT : Straigt from tah source (Build it! section of the main website) :
    In addition, it is not possible to use simultaneously the 4-Pole Mission filter board and the Programmer since they will be both accessing at the same time the digital extension port.

  • @V`cent: yep but Frank told me it would work, and I think he wouldn’t have without a good reason. Though on second thought he said: “THERETICALLY it should work”. Maybe it just plain doesn’t… hmm. Let’s see what he says.

    @6581punk: yes I did!

  • The same is true of the polivoks. You remove the 595 and insert the pin chip into the socket to wire the switches to them.

  • ehm, sorry for the stupid question, what do you mean by “pin chip”?

    anyway, just in case here’s some pix:


    high rest version

  • There was a connector that plugged into the IC socket. It was like a IC socket but has pins on the top.

  • oh… no, didn’t have one in the kit. but then I don’t have a polivoks…

  • I think @6851punk is talking about this:

  • Incidentally, I tried to solder that thin ribbon stuff to a connector the other day to make a jig that would speed up testing filterboards. The results aren’t great and although mine didn’t look as good as yours, I thought it would work and it didn’t. When I removed it and used jumpers, it was fine.

    This is why I have been trying to design a way to cable the XT without soldering directly to the boards with that cable. I would prefer to crimp it and use connectors if I can. It will also allow me to swap out boards whenever I wish. The only board that will have permanent modifications will be the digital control board, but even then only the male headers will be changed out. I plan to use extra long ones that will permit a connector at the top and the bottom. That should not prevent the controller from being used in a regular Shruthi case like any of the others. I think I’m also going to socket the LCD too BTW.

    Maybe I’m wasting my time, but that’s my objective.

    At any rate, I think you should test without that soldered header connector to the XT board. I don’t trust them.

  • Maybe I’m an idiot but why are you wiring to the control board twice? Both from the bottom of the board soldered directly and from the top with the header connector?

  • thanks for the picture!

    not sure I completely understood your question, but if you are referring to the two rainbow cables coming from the programmer PCB, one gets connected to the filter board, the other one to the digital control board. apparently this is a workaround for getting the 4-PM to work with the programmer. The connection between the control board and the filter has also been removed, so the programmer functions as a bridge between the two.
    I had to take my shruthi back out from the programmer because I need it tomorrow for rehearsals so I can’t take a picture, but here’s Frank pic with explanation:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fcd72/7159334326/in/photostream

  • Okay. I figured there was something I didn’t understand…

    Thanks for explaining that.

  • Eeep. I don’t have the resistors on my socket. Have I wired it wrong? I have it so that the centre terminal of the switch is connected to the control signal (overdrive, fm etc). and the other two terminals are 5v and 0v.

  • This is 4053 input pull-down resistors. Optional.
    Or not pull-down?

  • Question for you XT people:

    When connecting more than one filter board, do you always split the F/Q signal from the controller board so that one filter gets F/Q and the other gets CV1-Out/CV2-Out? Or does that only apply for certain filter combinations?

  • @ Titus
    The F and Q signals are different for the polivoks and the SMR4 board.
    So if polivoks is selected the F and Q signals are polivoks signals and the
    SMR4 should be on CV out 1 and 2.
  • @ Rumpelfilter & V' cent,
    I've got my programmer board 595 and polivoks 595 in serial and it works fine!
    Just make sure the programmer 595 is the first.
    So Q7 digital board to serial in 595 programmer board.
    Serial out 595 programmer board to serial in 595 filter board.
    Both boards the same clk, en, 5V and gnd.
  • First, does everything work fine without the programmer?

    Only one pot changing more than one Parameter mostly means a Short somewhere on the CV Line, remove the 4051s and try probing with a multimeter to GND and VCC. You should read a steady ∞.
    If so the next thing to check are the INHIBIT lines to the 4051s on PIN 6.
    Most suspicious is the spot where all the CV Lines sum up under the 137.

    BTW – your soldering looks much better than mine…..

  • @6851punk
    These Resistors pull down the line to GND so you have a nice clear logic level, even if one of the switches fail. I learned yesterday that this is important when playing live…..

  • Frank, they pulling down line when switch central line disconnected from both pins, like hardware debounce, right?

  • Yups.
    This is to prevent doing things like these:

    Its me trying to track down a suspiciously faulty SMR-4 Filter Switch Backstage whilst a SoundCheck – turned out that the proud owner altered the Systems Setting…..

    Unrelated Side Note: for this i myself award the “Soldering Hero Of The Week” to myself for disassembling and reassembling a Shruhti XT whilst an slightly overdimnesioned Line Array capable of delivering for a whole Stadium, stuffed into a 600m^2 Club shakes literally everything. Hard to solder when the Board vibrates like in LA 1857….

  • You’re The Soldering Hero Away!

    Phew, i remember last summer. Week of continuous soldering @ Spiritlake festival in the sands of Olchon island. I was the only guy with gas soldering iron. And the only guy who can solder and was sober enough to do it. This year i’ll think twice before packing soldering iron in my backpack =)

  • If we can find a way to keep those nuts in place in the case slots then it will be possible to use bolts with thumbscrews :)

    Quick access to the innards.

  • I have al magnetic Screwdrivers for this… thats the reason for the Slots in the Sidepanels, the Nuts fall better trhu than with Hex Holes ;-)

  • thanks Frank for the help, I can’t test much without reattaching everything to the shruthi-1 can I? I think this whole business will have to wait until I have some time again, right now my open slots for these things have been used up.
    Anyway the shruthi-1 works totally fine out of the programmer, also works fine in the programmer, just not with it.
    I’ll report back when I have something new.

    just a thing I didn’t get: what do you mean by “steady ∞” should it show infinite? If so, what’s an infinite voltage?

  • Resistance (which is futile as we all know)....

  • you’re indeed a soldering hero. taking your tools even to rehearsals and gigs! do you have a nice holster for your iron?

  • Doesn’t need to, he could solder the boards with a cigarette lighter :)

  • He uses the fcd72 Vulcan Mind Melt® technique. No irons required.

  • In Fact, one of these is on my next Reichelt Order…..

  • please don’t!!! =))

  • Just use a blowlamp lol.

  • @schrab

    Its so obvious: Phones don’t have Wires anymore, so the next step is Soldering Irons…...

  • Except that wireless phones don’t run on propane :)

  • Well, there’s been talk about fuel-cell powered mobiles. Or at least sat phones that come in hand on those pole missions™

    Anything that runs on propane reminds me of camping and hiking. Good thing you can use that portable soldering iron to ward off any nosy wildlife :)

  • Well, I think it is liquefied like lighter fluid. I guess you get more energy in such a small space then.

  • More important: you can get Fuel at virtually any Gas Station across Europe…..

  • If it is sunny you can use a magnifying glass :)

  • Nope. The Earth was shaken from that slightly over dimensioned Line Array, see here for the PowerAmps:

    14x 2kW Yamahas for the Line Arrays and 8x 2kW for the Monitors.

  • is that FOH? Gotta love mixing mains from the side!

  • If you only for some DJs at that gig…. hey, you only use 2x 2Mains and 2x 2 Monitors for the gig. Relaxed!

  • that makes sense then. I’ve had the wonderful experience of mixing 8 piece bands (guitar/bass/drums/vox/keys/horns) from the side of the stage. Kinda feels like Catholic church. A lot of sitting and standing. Occasionally some kneeling. Massively insane to have to run FOH from damned-near backstage :)

  • Ah, other mixers. Just learning to use band's Presonus, and more importantly the iPad way of mixing. Now that is fun, you don't have to be on the side of stage!
  • Hi everyone.
    Since Franck decided to not do a last last PCB order for is programmer I plan to etch my own. I’ve been lookin here on the forum or on the flickr for his last design (rev 1.45 or 1.7?) But can’t find it. The only one I’ve got is the one he did routing manually a while ago. Do you guys could point me to the right link?
    So far I’ve finished a shruti with a ladder filter and the panel/pots for the programmer are just waiting for the programmer PCB.
    Thanks

  • The last order was the last one so i can’t decide to do a laster one – else ill be like the Stones on their 20th Anniversary Farewell World Tour….

    There are only hand routed designs for self etching as the machine routed is double sided and making a double sided PCB AND solder all the VIAS is much more hassle than soldering the 4 Wirebridges, isn’t it?

  • Someone was selling one on here, not sure if it was sold or not:

    http://www.mutable-instruments.net/forum/discussion/4717/fs-franks-shruthi-programmer-pcb#Item_4

  • Seems they become rare collector items. :D

  • Building an XT is just too easy. Not enough wires :)

  • @fcd72 yes I do understand this choice. I think I read something similar on another thread. That’s why I m not asking you directly to make another batch as I ‘ve seen on the shop the shruti xt “pro” even if it is a bit to expensive for me at the moment. However I’ve learning quite a lot through all the mutable instrument gear recently. I’m a real noob for all of that but I m getting quite addict to the making synth thing as using them. Ibve learned recently how to etch a PCB with a laser cutter on single face copper clad. That why I was thinking the PCB rumpfilter has used would have been OK test…but I still can’t find of the B/W board for waspxt edition in your flick r account :(
    Could you give a link for it? Obviously if you’re OK with the idea…
    @6581punk cheers for the link on the forum I’ve seen it also but I thought someonenelse already made an offer for it… And eventually I’ll be quite keen to be able to etch my own PCB not only for the programmer but also for other gear.
    @loopino the PCB 6581punk is talking about has been ‘reserved’ within a day…Yes they do start to sound like collector PCBS

  • Wasp and 1.45 are the same. The wasp only had this special limited edition WASP etched.

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